Weapon Specialization (de)Mystified

Over the past few weeks/months/years of rogue forum trolling at work, the question of how Fist/Dagger weapon specialization works have never been directed answered, documented, or even tested, despite the well known fact that Mace/Sword spec will work only if you ahve mace/sword equipped even in offhand only.

IMHO, the source of the confusion in Fist/Dagger spec is that, paperdoll's crit rate will increase by 5% if and only if you have the respective weapon equipped in Main-hand. Paperdoll crit rate will not receive the benefit of Fist/Dagger Spec if you only equip the respective weapon in Off-hand. Thus the 2 school of thoughts.
  1. Fist/Dagger Spec will be in effect as long as you equip the respective MH, and OH will receive the benefit of +5% crit rate disregarding of the weapon type. e.g., Dagger Spec rogue with dagger in MH but sword in OH, should receive the same +5% crit chance increase for its OH sword.
  2. Fist/Dagger Spec weapon spec will be in effect if and only if the respective weapon type is equipped, similar to Mace/Sword Spec.
My intuitation has always points to #1 as it is easier for the programmers to code the actual weapon spec mechanics, but I have not conduct any test to verify until today. In the past weekend of grinding Consortium rep (finally exalted btw), I have use recap to collect some sets of data from about 1000 melee swings with different weapons equipped.

The data collection is done using 13/41/7 combat daggers spec, with Dagger Specialization.

Set 1: Whispering Blades of Slaying (dagger) + Stormreaver Warblade (fist)

Set 2: Reflex Blade (fist) + Warp Splinter's Thorn (dagger)

My preliminary conclusion from the test data coheres to #2 argument, which argues for that fist/dagger specialization will be in effect as long as the respective weapon is equipped, ignoring actual paper doll crit rate.

I am at work right now, but the recorded numbers are at home. I will try to make an update soon.


Ralex said...

Have always wanted to see definitive proof as well. Will look forward to your numbers.

Anonymous said...

ye meh too
even though i hav rerolled now lol

Anonymous said...

I've been meaning to do this test too. All you have to do is look at your crit % on your white damage from Recap over many attacks (e.g. a couple of hour's worth). Do this with the "right" offhand and the "wrong offhand and compare :D Word

Pedro Pinheiro said...

Actually, in my opinion as a computer engineering student, the code for #2 should be a fair bit simpler, provided each attack roll knows which what hand it comes from (as well it should).

Arcana said...

A question: I don't understand the fist/sword spec comment. If I have Sword Spec, and I equip fist in mainhand and sword in offhand, both my mainhand and offhand attacks have the chance for an extra swing?

Regarding this topic, I think the +5% crit is independent because if it weren't, you could get both Fist and Dagger spec and have +10% to both regular and special attacks.

Speaking of dualspec, if Sword Spec works as I said above, then Fist + Sword spec with fist in MH and sword in OH would give my mainhand attacks both benefits.

Anonymous said...

#2 was confirmed with definitive proof around 6 maybe 9 months ago.

Anonymous said...

Do a barrel roll! and also math on the new way sword spec works

VitaminC said...

hard to find time between 12 hr workdays, 1-2 hr of wow, and errands. but ill try to put up something by this wknd.

Animastryfe said...

12 hour workdays? WTF?

I enjoy your work by the way.

Meta said...

Glad to see you haven't dropped off the earth, VitC. Big fan of your work as well.

SiggY said...

"If I have Sword Spec, and I equip fist in mainhand and sword in offhand, both my mainhand and offhand attacks have the chance for an extra swing?"

No, the extra swing procs only by your sword attacks from offhand.

Also sword spec was changed, the extra swing:
offhand = offhand extraswing
I've tested today~ (1dps dagger mainhand + spiteblade offhand)

sorry 4 my bad english

greeds Siggy ~Germany~

kymera said...

great job so far, thanks for all that work.
any updates on this one here yet? i just got into the situation where i have to good weapons, but different types.

Anonymous said...

If I have mace spec and a sword in MH and mace in OH will both weapon proc mace stun?

Anonymous said...

I asked a GM about this sometime ago in order to settle an argument I was having with another rogue in my guild. The GM confirmed that the 5% crit chance only applies to the off hand if the specialized weapon is equipped. Thus supporting your finding for argument 2.

bbr said...

Fist + swords have been changed, it no longer works together.

Sword + Sword is the best thing you can do as a raider.

PVE Rogues said...

it's a shame this blog seems to have died now :( Where have you gone?

VitaminC said...

still playing, but have been prioritizing real life over wow. and yes, i build excel models and analyze for a living.