3.17.2006

Melee Attack Ruleset

Miss + Dodge + Parry + Block + Crit + Hit = 100%

For example, if I have 30% Crit, +0 Hit and my target has 5% Dodge, 5% Block, 5% Parry, then in ONE DICE roll,

00-04 Miss (5%)
05-09 Dodge (5%)
10-14 Parry (5%)
15-19 Block (5%)
20-49 Crit (30%)
50-99 Hit (50%)

so if the magical Blizzard dice rolled 35, it will be a crit, and so forth.

Now what happens in a Coldblood Evis? The Crit chance is increased to 100% but anyone who plays rogue for more than 2 hours knows CB Evis misses like fuck. So here is what happens,

00-04 Miss (5%)
05-09 Dodge (5%)
10-14 Parry (5%)
15-19 Block (5%)
20-99 Crit (80%)

So your Evis will Crit 80% of the time.

Wait, but isn't CB a 100% Crit? Yes, but here is the deal. There are precedences for each one of these attack/defense types. Crits only eats Hits. +Hit items only eats Misses. Nothing eats Dodge/Parry/Block (besides themselves and weapon skills).

Thus the precedence order is,

Miss > Dodge/Parry/Block > Crit > Hit

So what about Dodge/Parry/Block's precedence?
Well, here is my speculation.

Dodge > Parry > Block

Dodge has precedence over block/parry because your target won't need to parry/block when he dodges soemthing.

Parry is higher than block because, well, everything parry and above is 100% damage mitigation.

Block is lower than all the 100% damage mitigation actions but better than taking a hit.

EDIT: creeps cannot parry or block
(supposely) from behind after patch 1.3, so it is advantagous even for sword rogues to attack doggy style. I will try to transcript patch 1.3 notes when WoW is back up. (3/21/06)

20 comments:

Anonymous said...

"Wait, but isn't CB a 100% Crit? Yes [...]"

Wrong.

"When activated, increases the critical strike chance of your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, or Eviscerate by 100%."

BY 100%.. not to.

VitaminC said...

By 100% makes it more than a 100% crit, which isn't possible.

But o well, you know what I meant :p

Lastwish said...

I believe that the wording could be interpreted as: Your original crit chance for (insert move) has been modified by increasing it to an additional 100% of its original crit chance.

So say 25% crit chance with evis, CB makes it 50%.

Just a thought, maybe I'm way out of my league =\

VitaminC said...

well, most +crit talents/skills/items increase your crit chance in additive ways.

if what you have said is true, than you will see non-crit CB Evis, which never happened in my rogue career. :p

Anonymous said...

Might be worth mentioning on the main page that since a mob cannot parry or block from behind that even as a sword rogue standing behind the monster is like an automatic plus 5-10% damage with no extra effort. Also, your feints won't get parried either, which is obnoxious.

Anonymous said...

I'm rather confused. Say the opponent is a rogue with 30% dodge, has evasion activated (80% dodge), has 5% parry. Lets say you have 30% crit. Does that mean every attack you land on him will be a crit?

VitaminC said...

that's correct.

assuming you have 0% miss chance and 30% crit chance, and your opponent (rogue) has 30% dodge 5% parry and popped evasion (+50% dodge), it will be:

00-00 Miss
00-79 Dodge (80%)
80-84 Parry (5%)
85-99 Crit (15%)
99-99 Hit (0%)

So yes, all of your hits landed on your opponent will be crit.

Matt said...

Based on this comparison, is it pretty much safe to assume that once you have enough +hit (either through precision or other gear) to ensure that your specials cannot miss that it's better to get +crit than +hit, since the +hit would only benefit your white attacks? Or am I misinterpreting this?

VitaminC said...

It really depends on your % of damages comes from. But yes, once you have enough +hit so your special won't miss, aim for +crit.

oZZ said...

Matt.. each +hit can't crit.

so your actual crit rate= tooltip crit /hit %. If you have +5% hit, your white damage crit will be:

crit%/0.80.

@ about 40-45% white damage, each +hit past 5% equates to about 4 agility.

emhoe said...

You're all wrong. Not only have tests shown that a CB makes the next special crit (it has never been a CB hit) but CMs have actually stated that a CB increases your crit chance to 100%.

@OP: Crit chance is not part of a hit roll, it is something that is applied after (ie it is multiplicative).

For proof of this, simply take note that (using your example) damagemeters such as recap would be finding a 30/80 crit chance, which is wrong. The WoW UI clearly states the melee crit chance at 30%.

Crit is an effect that is applied after a hit is confirmed. If you consider it in the way you did, a crit chance of 30% would actually give an effective crit chance of 37.5% (30/80) - this is incorrect.

Anonymous said...

You're all wrong. Not only have tests shown that a CB makes the next special crit (it has never been a CB hit) but CMs have actually stated that a CB increases your crit chance to 100%.

@OP: Crit chance is not part of a hit roll, it is something that is applied after (ie it is multiplicative).

For proof of this, simply take note that (using your example) damagemeters such as recap would be finding a 30/80 crit chance, which is wrong. The WoW UI clearly states the melee crit chance at 30%.

Crit is an effect that is applied after a hit is confirmed. If you consider it in the way you did, a crit chance of 30% would actually give an effective crit chance of 37.5% (30/80) - this is incorrect.

And that comment regarding guaranteed crits on all attacks that hit if a rogue turns on evasion looks like utter tripe. WTB proof.

- vanja|b

VitaminC said...

Emhoe,

Recap data is AGAINST WOW RULESET. period.

WoW defines "crit %" as critical hits over ALL attacks. That's all attacks including the ones you miss, dodge, parry, block.

Recap defines "crit %" as critical hits over HIT attacks, discounting your miss/dodge/parry/block.

WoW uses a single roll system like all RPGs. CB never increase your Crit% to 100% because Crit never consumes miss/dodge/parry.

Vanja|b,

Just go duel someone and pop evasion, and look at the # of Crit attacks you suffer. And duel again and don't pop evasion and record the # of Crit attacks you suffer. Compare the differences.

emhoe/vanja said...

Ill do the evasion duel thing now, sorry for the double post - didnt realise posts I made had to be authorised (delete the post by anonymous, its my post)

Anonymous said...

"WoW uses a single roll system like all RPGs"


all 'RPGs' may use this b/c its based on dice, but video games do not.


EQ and Daoc are examples, that use a chain of events (as stated by the devs themselvs) Was this a blue post that stated this ruleset or did you just pick up D&D again?

Anonymous said...

The way WoW calculates crit rate is over ALL attacks. Crit rate is not based on hits only.

The formulae states this:

Example:
60% chance to

New hit chance = (Original hit%) + (toHit modifiers, or X) - (crit modifiers, or Y)
76% + X% - Y% = New hit%

New crit chance = (Original crit%) + (crit modifiers, or Z)
0% + Z% = new crit%

New miss chance - (Original miss%) - (toHit modifiers)
24% - X% = new miss%

Therefore, base:

76% to hit, 0% to crit, 24% to miss, considering dual wielding.

As such, Dodges, Parries, and Blocks are all based on the defensive, and have no true application in the "Hits + Misses + Crits = 100%" ruleset.

Keeping this in mind, CB adds 100% critrate to your next attack, so if you have 25% chance to crit on any given attack, that means the next attack will be 125% to crit. Regardless this is an impossible %, it guarantees a crit on the next attack. Then, the attack roll is compared to a saving roll on the defensive, such as:

25% chance to dodge + 50% evasion chance to dodge + ghostly strike, et al.

If the guaranteed crit's roll rolls higher than the chance to block, parry, or dodge, the crit will land. Eviscerate also cannot miss once you supercede +6% to hit, therefore it will either land or be mitigated.

Thus, if you focus on gaining as much +hit gear as you can (I am at 24% atm) then every crit you add will be a "pure crit," rather, it simply hits or crits. There are no misses.

This is then why you will never miss an auto attack, all specials will land, and the only thing contributing to lost damage will be parries, blocks, and dodges, rolled on the defensive.

Graecus
Staghelm

Anonymous said...

Sorry, couldn't edit in time, but:

The formulae states this:

Example:
60% chance to




Scratch the "60% chance to," was a previous example I took out. Sorry for the confusion.

Joe Berenguer said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

You explain that the precedence order is :
Miss > Dodge/Parry/Block > Crit > Hit

So Hit is actually lowest in the list. If this is so, what are the +hit items good for?

VitaminC said...

+hit has nothing to do with "hit"; +hit is to reduce "miss".